Steve Grantham: Ajarn, how long have you been coming to Atlanta to give seminars at Sifu Fong's Academy?

Surachai Sirisute: Since 1983.

SG: How did you meet Sifu Fong?

SS: Guro Danny Inosanto got Sifu in touch with me. Sifu wanted me to do a seminar for his students.

SG: You been coming here every year since then, haven't you? Sometimes twice a year?

SS: Yes.

SG: You mentioned at the seminar today that your father started you in Thai Boxing when you were 4?

SS: My dad is the one that brought me up (in Thai Boxing). When I was about 4 years old, he would have me practice my thai kick at night before I took my bath.

SG: I didn't know he was in Thai Boxing.

SS: He didn't really compete. My dad and Ajarn Sawan were pretty good friends. My house was next to the camp. He told Ajarn Sawan that he had a son now that he wanted to learn Thai Boxing. I was 4 years old, I'd stand there and watch them practice, but I couldn't train, I was too young. But I think Ajarn Sawan told my dad to let me kick the bag. So I started kicking the bag, every day.

SG: How old were you when you had your first fight?

SS: I was 12.

SG: How many fights did you have?

SS: 72, or 73.

SG: That's a lot of fights.

SS: Not really. Some have 200 fights. There are some fighters from Fairtex that have had 220 fights. Most fighters have 100, 150 and up. But myself, I left the country when I was young.

SG: How old were you when you left the country?

SS: 18.

SG: So you had 73 fights between 12 years old until you were 18?

SS: Yes, sometime 2 or 3 a month. We'd go to north Thailand where they had fairs and matches.

SG: So you were 18 when you came to the States?

SS: 18, yes.

SG: Did you start teaching Thai Boxing right away?

SS: About 4 months after I got here. I had some friends who introduced me to people.

SG: This was before Thai Boxing was well known, wasn't it?

SS: Yes, nobody in this country knew about Thai Boxing then, this was back in 1968.

SG: So you were one of the pioneers of Thai Boxing?

SS: Yes. After that, I started to teach in the colleges, and the YMCA. Then I started to teach other instructors, like Tony Genette. You have to talk to Danny Inosanto about him. He's Joe Lewis instructor. He was the first one to go to Japan, and then he came back and started to teach. But he didn't want publicity, that's why you never heard of him. I taught a lot different instructors, but sometimes they never mention that they trained with me. I don't care. Sometimes I don't want them to mention that I taught them!

I think Danny (Inosanto) helped a lot, to put Thai Boxing in this country. Just me, it would take a while. Danny helped a lot.

SG: You've got a large organization now, world-wide. What countries do you have associations in?

SS: Australia, New Zealand, Spain, Canada, Argentina, Mexico, Switzerland, Italy, Columbia, Denmark, England - Many countries.

SG: Do you travel often?

SS: I travel almost every day. Sometimes I fly out and do a seminar, and fly back the same day.

SG: Ajarn, how has your teaching in seminars changed over the years?

SS: Long time ago, I always worked the students hard. You probably remember working hard.

SG: Yessir, I do remember working hard.

SS: But not anymore, because I do not need work them hard anymore. Just think about this one. Sometimes we have about 60 students the first day. Second day, we have about 30. They cannot handle it. But at that time, I didn't care. Now it's different.

SG: So you were testing them?

SS: Yes. But now I have a lot of instructors, I can work the students' form, work on their combinations.

SG: Your focus at your seminars these days does seem to be more on form, making sure they get good form.

SS: Yes, and combinations. I do have a lot of good instructors now. The instructors can work hard with their students now. I just check the students' form and work on the combinations with them now.

SG: How do you control your instructors quality and see if they are keeping up their training?

SS: I check the instructors out, see how they're doing. Check their form, see if they've been working out. Suppose they don't do pretty good, I tell them, "OK, you've got to work on this a little bit." But I do have a lot of good students with pretty good form. Like Frank Cucci, Greg Nelson, Dickie Harrell.

SG: How do you feel about grappling Ajarn Chai? Do you feel you need to train your instructors to prepare against grapplers?

SS: A long time ago, a lot of different arts went to Thailand, and they always get knocked out. These Chinese guys came and saw some Thai boxing and wanted to try it, and bang, bang, they all get knocked out. Then one day, one of the Chinese went back to China and told his master, "I cannot fight Thai boxers, they knock me out." And his master said, "You cannot fight them. You cannot beat them. You want to beat them, you go over there, train the Thai Boxing." And he did.

You know Fujiwara? From Japan? That's what Fujiwara did. He got beat bad. Then he went to Thailand and trained at one of the camps. He became a champion. He was the first foreigner to become a Thai Boxing champion.

I tell my students they need to concentrate on two things: standing fighting, and ground fighting. I never say just Thai Boxing. I always respect the Art, I do. You never see me put any martial art down. I always respect everyone, and I always tell student to work everywhere, with anyone they want to. But I think a good art has to do with the person, not the art.

I brought Thai Boxing to this country, no one knew anything about it yet. A long time ago, I had challenges all the time, every week.

SG: From other arts?

SS: Yes. Later, they stopped. And I kept trying to show Thai Boxing. Danny (Inosanto) helped a lot. Sifu Fong helped a lot. That's one thing I respect about Sifu Fong. Usually, the Wing Chun people, they don't like to learn anything (about Thai Boxing). I know a lot of Wing Chun people. But Sifu Fong likes to learn different ways. I really respect Sifu Fong, myself.

SG: Do you mostly do Thai Boxing, Ajarn? Or do you study other arts?

SS: You know, I learned Karate. I learned a lot of different things. Because I trained my students to fight. I have to find out what they will come up against, and how they're going to deal with this art. I just want to make sure my students can deal with it.

SG: So you have to understand what they're going against in order to train them in how to deal with it?

SS: Yes. Because you never know who you're dealing with.

SG: I wanted to ask you about Krabi Krabong. Guro Inosanto mentioned that earlier, that you were responsible for introducing him to Krabi Krabong.

SS: Yes, I used to do a little bit. My Uncle showed me a little. He's a general in the army. He teaches at Thailand's West Point. My family comes from the military. Ajarn Samai, told me, "Ajarn Chai, I'd like you to help me promote Krabi Krabong. I know you've got a lot of students in the States." I said, "Ok, I will help." That's why I brought Danny Inosanto home with me one time, a long time ago, and we went over there. I introduced him to Ajarn Samai. And he went back again, and studied, him and Paula. He just went again last year and stayed with me, from the week before Christmas, all the way up to the new year. He studied that time with Ajarn Samai's son, because Ajarn Samai passed away.

But anyway, the reason I brought Danny is because, to me, Krabi Krabong is similar to Kali, and I didn't want there to be any competition between them. I want them to be together, in the same family.

SG: Do you think the Krabi Krabong is kind of a blend between Thai Boxing and Kali?

SS: It's a weapon art. I respect Danny a lot, because he helped the Thai Arts, that's why I just want to make sure there are no problems with Kali and Krabi Krabong. That's why I got Danny to take care of Krabi Krabong.

SG: So there won't be any competition.

SS: Yes. Suppose everyone is going in the same line, in the same direction, there won't be any problem. Isn't it true? But if someone just smashes in from somewhere else, there are lots of problems. Sometimes problems start small, somebody says something, and it gets bigger. That's why I want to help Krabi Krabong in this country. To keep competition down.

SG: Doesn't your son train Krabi Krabong?

SS: He's gonna be under Danny Inosanto. I mean, he's probably studied more than Guro Danny, but, by majority and age, Danny will be the leader. My son can help promote, because he's young. He's pretty good. He shows Danny the ceremony, and teaches him some things. But Danny is first. You know, a lot of people have been to Krabi Krabong school. Right now, I'm just trying to get everybody together.

SG: How many Krabi Krabong schools are there?

SS: Usually one. Right now, it's two. But they all came from the same family.

SG: So anyone certified to teach learned in one of those schools?

SS: Yes. One of them's named Pramote Gym and the other one is Buddhai Swan. Buddhai Swan is the father, Pramote Gym is run by the son. It's like a family problem, you know?

I don't worry about it, just the Thai Boxing. A lot of people say, "you've been teaching in the states a long time, but the Thai boxing is still not there." People from England say that, but look at England. They don't know how big England is. It's about the size of Texas. Suppose I'm in England, I make it go real quick! You have to think about this one.

SG: (Laughing)

SS: In the United States, how many States are there? It takes a long time to do that many. England is small. I can promote Thai Boxing in about 3 years. In the United States, we have 50 States. It's not small. And I go to different countries too. That's why it takes so long.

SG: You've got a very large organization. You've taught a lot of people over the years.

SS: You are one of them. (Ajarn Chai's trademark laugh). We have a lot of instructors. Next step, you're gonna have to build up your students. After you get two or three up (to apprentice instructor), you can test for associate instructor. There's a written test, and the ceremony.

SG: Ajarn, why did you change from the short ceremony to the long ceremony?

SS: No, we don't change. I like for people to know how to do both. But the long ceremony, you work on respect at the same time. The long ceremony what I like to see on the test.

SG: Ajarn, could you explain what's involved with testing for Thai instructorship? What are your requirements?

SS: Okay, they have to be in Thai Boxing at least 3 years. After the first year, their instructor can test them for student 2nd level. After 2 years, their instructor can test them for 3rd level. Then after 3 years, they can ask the office to test with me. They have to let the office know 6 months before the test.

SG: This is the Thai Boxing Association office?

SS: Yes. They put the name on the computer, and I know who's going to test. We have beginning instructor (Apprentice), Associate Instructor, Full Instructor, and Senior Instructor.

SG: Do you have any Senior or Full Instructors currently?

SS: Danny Inosanto. He's a hard worker. He doesn't give up. That's one thing I respect. And he really wants to learn. A lot of instructors now, they charge you two or three hundred dollars and just give you the diploma. I don't really like this. And then what happens, when these instructors start to train the students, they look terrible. And it makes the Thai Boxing form go downhill a little bit. That's why, myself, I make it little harder.

SG: You're tests are very tough. The students have to shadow box and show the techniques, using good form, before they are even allowed to do the ceremony or the rounds. That's how you control the quality of your instructors?

SS: You know, I'll tell you; the test is the difference between the student and the instructor. It's like a chess game. Suppose the instructor doesn't know how to train the student for the test. The student gets hurt. Sometimes the instructor says, "go, go, go!" and the student gets 60 kicks and 35 skip knees in about a minute and a half. And you've got a minute and a half to left go, to survive. You've been through that one, you know.

SG: Yessir.

SS: And you know right away what I'm talking about now. That's why you have to tell the students, "Take it easy." Make sure there is only about 15 or 20 seconds left after you kick your kicks and your skip knees. Foot jab and get out. Foot jab, and block the kicks. I didn't see Milan use any foot jabs today(during his instructorship test). Or block any kicks. And we worked on them all day. You know why? Because he doesn't have anyone to feed him, to be over there and work with him (in Memphis). He cannot fly all the way over here everyday to train. That's why it was hard for him. I understand. You know, he only got 34 skip knees today. But he has the heart to go through anyway. And he doesn't have anyone to help him over there. But he has the heart to keep going, he does.

SG: Is that part of what you test in the ring, Ajarn Chai?

SS: It's to test them, what're they gonna do, because they cannot attack back to the feeder. In a fight, you can kick back, but in the test, you can't kick the one holding the pads. The only thing you can do is, kick, kick, kick, (the pads) and get yourself out. The pad holder has the pads, you kick the pads, and he nails you, bang!

How many years you been working with me?

SG: It's been about 10 years now, Ajarn.

SS: You know, your hair go pretty quick.

SG: (Laughing), yessir, I know.

SS: (Trademark giggle).

SG: Last question, Ajarn Chai. What do you look for in your students?

SS: I like to see them get good form. I like to see them get along together. I like them to be like a family, you know. I don't like to see them fight each other. Good discipline. Honest. Loyal to themselves, and loyal to the Art, not to me. Discipline. You know me about discipline.

About a year before my dad died, he told me, "You know Chai, I can see you're a little bit soft, I used to tell you that, you remember?" And I said, "Yes, Dad. I remember. " He wanted me to be soft like soap, and strong like a diamond. These were the words I always followed. I can be mean. I can be soft, you know. That's the way I'd like my students to be, soft like soap, and strong like a diamond. Martial Arts are not about fighting. Martial Arts are about discipline.

SG:  Ajarn Chai, thanks for taking the time after a long day to talk with us! See you in the spring!

Interview conducted by Steve Grantham.

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